Barbara Socha is a Polish economist who served as Deputy Minister of Family and Social Policy and as the first Government Plenipotentiary for Demographic Policy under the second Law and Justice (PiS) government between 2019 and 2023. In these roles, she was responsible for developing strategies aimed at increasing fertility rates and promoting traditional family models in Poland. Socha presented a report on current demographic trends in Poland at a two-day conference on family values and demographic challenges, organized by the Budapest-based think tank Danube Institute on 1–2 April. She sat down with Hungarian Conservative for an interview to discuss these issues in greater depth, while also offering her perspective on Poland’s upcoming presidential election in May.

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My first question is about your report from yesterday. One thing I found particularly interesting was the anti-family messaging that seems to be prevalent in Poland—and more broadly, across Western societies. Where do you think this is coming from?

That’s a difficult question. I believe we’ve been facing this issue for quite some time. In Poland, I think it really started after the collapse of communism. This applies to many countries in our region—Hungary, Poland, others—because we began looking so strongly to the West. The West became our aspiration, particularly when it came to careers and what some researchers now call ‘workism’.

Workism—having a job, providing for the family, fulfilling professional aspirations—is, of course, good. The problem arises when it begins to work against something else—specifically, against our private lives. Part of the issue is the devaluation of work done at home. In English, we have the nice word ‘homemaker’. In Polish, there’s no good equivalent. This devaluation, especially of women’s domestic contributions, became widespread.

‘These messages are extremely harmful, especially to young women who lack exposure to alternative perspectives’

It even became taboo to say, ‘I want to be a homemaker,’ or ‘I don’t want to focus on my career.’ Women are under constant pressure to pursue professional success—which is, of course, their right—but the media often highlights childlessness as a lifestyle choice. Again, everyone is free to choose, but this kind of promotion of a particular lifestyle, especially one without children, is problematic.

If you’re asking where this originates—some kind of superpower or grand strategy—I don’t have an answer. I think part of it is the media, which tends to favour provocative narratives. Saying: ‘I don’t want to have children,’ is provocative and attention-grabbing. In Poland, it’s become quite aggressive. As I mentioned in my presentation, we now frequently see headlines warning that children will ‘ruin your life’. These messages are extremely harmful, especially to young women who lack exposure to alternative perspectives. That is the real danger.

You mentioned that workism is one of the central problems driving the demographic crisis. What I find particularly interesting is that, although Japan is culturally very different from us, we can observe a similar phenomenon there—even more deeply embedded and rigid. Japan is also among the countries with the lowest fertility rates.

I prefer not to comment on Japan, as their society is rooted in entirely different civilizational traditions, which I can’t claim to fully understand. But yes, based on general knowledge and reporting, it seems clear that the intense focus on work leaves little room for building families.

In the West, work has become increasingly central. That’s understandable, as prosperity is important and comes from labour. But somewhere along the way, we forgot the value of work done at home. Our systems—pension, taxation, income—don’t recognize that contribution. Hungary does a great job in partially replacing the lost income for mothers who stay at home with young children. That’s a mental shift we all need.

Our current economic model is flawed. Pension systems, for instance, are based on individual contributions. But our societies are built on families, not individuals. Today, the fewer children you have, the more you can work—and the higher pension you’ll receive. That’s completely the opposite of what should be incentivized.

When Bismarck introduced pensions in Germany, no one considered that we might reach a point with no population replacement. For decades, the system worked. But now, we need to restore the connection between raising children and economic contribution. Contributions to the next generation must be recognized as part of our economic reality.

This requires a complete rethink. It’s not just about immediate income, but long-term sustainability. The family must be recognized as the basic economic unit—not the individual.

On that note, the previous PiS government and Hungary played an important role in 2020, when together with the first Trump administration they signed the Geneva Consensus, reaffirming the family as central to society. However, Poland withdrew from it under Donald Tusk’s government. How does this affect how Polish society sees family values?

The family issue has disappeared from the public debate. That’s the biggest problem. I’m not just referring to the current government’s ideology, which is obviously the opposite of the previous one and also of Hungary’s. But even beyond that, no one is talking about families anymore.

Some left-wing think tanks in Poland are even saying we should stop trying to reverse demographic trends and instead ‘adjust’ to depopulation. That’s like admitting defeat. It’s promoting a losing strategy. And it’s unnecessary—solutions exist.

‘People won’t make life decisions if they can’t rely on the stability of policies’

Gatherings like this at the Danube Institute prove that we can bring together brilliant minds and explore viable paths forward. The current trends are not natural for humanity. They stem from technological shifts, flawed economic models, and social disruptions. Fixing these can reverse the trends.

Back in Poland, the government has begun discussing limiting or changing the 500+ and now 800+ programmes, which were essential for family support. Even the debate around scrapping them undermines their effect. People won’t make life decisions if they can’t rely on the stability of policies. That is the biggest threat—instability in family policy.

That reminds me of a conversation I had earlier with Jay W Richards from the Heritage Foundation. He said that in the US, there is a risk that pro-family policies would be associated with Trump and immediately reversed by the next administration. Do you think that’s a real danger? Can anything be done about it?

Yes, it’s a real problem—and it’s happening in Poland right now. When the government changed, many initiatives were immediately shut down. One example is the Generations Institute, which I personally helped launch. We believed such institutions were vital—a place where experts could work together to solve demographic issues. But it was closed just two weeks after the new prime minister took office.

In Hungary, you’ve done a great job building a network of such institutions over the past 15 years. But there’s always a risk that a future government could stop their work. In the United States, there’s a long-standing tradition of independent think tanks, often funded by private actors. That makes them more resilient. Poland doesn’t have that tradition. We were just at the beginning—and now we must start over from scratch if we want to rebuild.

Looking ahead, Poland is preparing for presidential elections in just over a month. Two right-wing candidates are polling well, but still behind Tusk’s candidate, Rafał Trzaskowski. What would be the consequences if conservative, patriotic forces lose the presidency?’

It would be a disaster—plain and simple. There would be no remaining institution capable of holding the government accountable. All power would be concentrated in the hands of a single party that, in my opinion, is rather anti-Polish.

If the Tusk-backed candidate wins, we’ll lose the last check on executive power. But I remain hopeful. A victory for a conservative candidate could mark the beginning of a political reversal. I sincerely hope that’s what happens.

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