Hungary stands firm in maintaining its national and cultural identity while promoting economic connections—a path of sanity moving forward, Dr Gladden J. Pappin, President of the Hungarian Institute of International Affairs (HIIA) told Hungarian Conservative in an interview at the MCC Feszt in Esztergom. The president spoke about Hungary’s current global message, the possible ways forward for the United States and China, and shared his observations on what changed because of the corporate culture in the US, as well as on how peace can be achieved.

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You’ve been serving as the president of the HIIA for the three months now. Interestingly, you are the first person in this position without a Hungarian name, but with a Hungarian citizenship. The think tank you lead belongs to the wider intellectual network of the Hungarian prime minister. How do you feel about your new role?

I’ve been in Hungary for two years and have come to realise the importance of the Hungarian example on the international stage. Initially, my focus was on domestic policy, particularly family policy, as I strongly believe that a conservative government should support conservative goals positively. Hungary gained attention for this approach. In international affairs, it’s more complicated, but Hungary’s positions, even when criticised, often become conventional wisdom months later. Hungary was sceptical of sanctions at the war’s start, and its interests drove that stance. Over time, it became widely accepted that sanctions didn’t fully stop the Russian war effort as expected.

Hungary is rarely credited for being ahead.

This has been true in other areas, including the war, where Hungary’s viewpoint was later recognised as reality. I see Hungary’s clear vision in foreign policy, and I’m eager to share it with the English-speaking world among others. That’s why I’m thrilled to be in this position.

What is Hungary’s global message today? What is the main theme Hungary wishes to convey to the world?

Hungary, being a small country, does not make decisions for global order as a whole, but there are many small and medium-sized countries that are in the same situation as Hungary, that have interests in openness to other countries, connections with other countries, have an interest in their existing alliances, and also have an interest in preserving their culture and identity. And Hungary is able to speak clearly on this, conveying a message of

preserving one’s national and cultural identity while also maintaining connections and openness to the rest of the world.

That’s actually a unique message, but that type of message has been lost in the past few decades, as the vision of global connectedness sought to eliminate national identity and borders. The idea was to get rid of borders, get rid of national identity, get rid of cultures, that there’s just going to be a global circulation of individual atoms or individuals that create their own identity through corporate culture and brands, and so on and so forth. However, that approach is losing steam, and more people find it harder to participate and benefit economically. Migration adds to concerns about threats to national and cultural identity. Meanwhile, liberals are closing off trade and decoupling from China, leading to a fractured world. Hungary stands firm in maintaining its national and cultural identity while promoting economic connections—a path of sanity moving forward.

Can Hungary maintain its Christian roots while fostering strong diplomatic relationships with other nations?

Yes, because

Christianity is a transnational phenomenon.

Christianity enables us to talk about things that other cultures care about as well, such as the definition of the family, the importance of communal ties, the importance of God and religion and the national community. These are normal parts of human life, and it’s Christianity that enables us to talk about them across borders. So Christianity and the Hungarian identity are very close in a way that helps connections. Obviously, that’s particularly important in Europe because of its Christian roots, which have often been forgotten. But actually, properly understood, it enables us to function on two different levels: we have our roots, we have our identity, but when it comes to making a trade agreement or accepting investment, that’s a separate category that is important to our functioning as a whole.

You have spoken about the influence of corporate culture recently. Could you elaborate on what this means exactly?

It is that the cultural and the financial level have been collapsed by outside forces. For example, it’s very clear to me in the United States that the LGBT ideology is pushed by corporations. A few years ago, the state of Indiana where I was living at the time was about to pass a Religious Freedom Restoration Act protecting basic elements of religious freedom in the state. And a bunch of corporations threatened the state that if the state passed this bill, they would pull out. So we have to get back to a situation where those layers of human life can function and be distinguished. But in particularly the American and Western corporate culture has been using corporate power and using financial power in order to put cultural pressure on Hungary specifically. So I think the key for making that work is to keep those two areas separate.

Looking ahead to Hungary’s upcoming presidency of the Council in the EU, which coincides with elections in both the EU and the US, the international situation is expected to become quite complex. How well-prepared is Hungary to make the most of these important times?

The preparation has already begun. All the ministries, all of the parts of Hungary’s international presence are already beginning to think about the messages that they will put forward; it comes down to the fact that Hungary’s message is not only unique but important. National sovereignty within Europe is a key element. Hungary also has a united internal viewpoint that’s expressed in the Hungarian government. We’re poised to have a clear voice during the Hungarian presidency. That will doubtless touch upon other elements as well, including Hungary’s family support schemes and the example that that provides. Other countries are beginning to realise that they’re experiencing a demographic crisis as well. In almost any area you pick, Hungary has a lot of experience over the last ten or so years with the issues that other countries are beginning to face. Sometimes people don’t want to admit that the Hungarian example is important,

but behind the scenes, there is an awareness that Hungary has something to offer,

and I think that the voice that Hungary expresses during the new presidency will be strong, will be unified, and it’ll be very relevant.

During the Tusványos event, the Prime Minister highlighted that the leading superpower has sensed that it is slipping to the second place, and suggested that lasting peace can only be achieved if both superpowers, that is the US and China, acknowledge that ‘there are of two suns in the sky.’ In your opinion, is this vision feasible in practice, and how can it be achieved?

The USA has been in the chief position in the world since the end of the Cold War. During the years immediately following the Cold War America was the sole military superpower, the country with the most advanced industrial economy, and in many ways it was an inspiring culture as well. Everyone was inspired by the idea of the American dream and America seemed to express all these things. For me as an American, of course, it’s very important that this continue. But these elements have begun to wobble and to fall apart a little bit. The American military approach has become more ideological since 9/11. The American military has been tasked with basically promoting liberal democracy through the use of force.

The American economy has declined in its industrial capacity. Much of that industrial capacity went to China, which is this rising power that we’re talking about. And unfortunately, we have to admit that American culture has also become more corrupt. I mean, a typical TV show in America now is aggressively pushing LGBT ideology: that is a core part of the image that America is projecting now. Not all of the American people are like that, this is still coming from Hollywood and New York and Washington. But I think throughout the world, the elements of American power are seen to be no longer united in the same way.

And what about China?

China has become a huge industrial power. It’s exporting its technology everywhere. It’s making investments. It’s providing material benefits. It’s a huge investor in Hungary. It’s building battery plants here. So in Hungary we’re in a strange situation where China is providing a lot of investment and building things materially. And the United States, in some ways, is exporting a hostile cultural ideology. So this is a complex world situation, where many other countries are in the same situation as us, and for these two powers to avoid coming into conflict, well, the details I’m sure are complicated, but the imperative is simple:

they have to come to an agreement about how to cooperate.

So if America’s goal is to recover its industrial capacity, which it’s lost, then it will have to work with China whether it wants to or not to redevelop its industrial capacity. But if America chooses to push for conflict, to push for trade war, to push for decoupling, I think all these things will be bad for the rest of the world, for Europe, and dangerous for Hungary as well.